Question about EFX limit orders
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Thread: Question about EFX limit orders

  1. #1
    I have been using EFX for approximately 8 months, mainly for limit orders (together with the followed TTO of course), and was happy with it.


    On Thursday 8/16 17:25 EST, a impending limit order to sell NZDJPY @ about 88 was triggered (price was approximately 79 at the time):
    My first order was implemented at 152.19 (now that is a nice fill ain't it )

    My TTO was trigerred too of course and since the market was lower my position was closed following the TTO triggered and purchased in 79.43. I had been away from the computer in the moment.

    Once I came back about 19:00 EST, I noticed I was left LONG 2500 NZDJPY @ 79.43.
    That exact moment I received a phone call from an MB representative and he explained about the 152.19 trade being broken. Bummer, but no problem since it is clearly a bad quote (though EFX's repsonsibility as all other qoutes were probably taken off as part of the liquidity problem ). While not having a issue with the commerce being broken, I've got a BIG problem with being left at 79.43.
    I had to contend with the representative for approximately 15 minutes I shouldn't be long nzdjpy and that he finally gave me an email address of the man who might be able to make decisions concerning refunds. He explained I will find a reply the next day (Friday). It afternoon.

    I endured a tiny financial loss as I risk really tiny sums (but still 4 percent of my account!) , but the actual problem here is that a individual can't leave pending orders on EFX's platform --
    One has a terrible execution, the trade is busted and he is left with an unprotected (TTO was triggered, you are either short or long but have NO STOP!) Place he did not mean to initiate UNLESS his pending order was implemented.

    To re-itereate: limit order implemented (event A happens), TTO orders started (triggering event B), all's well so far. The original limit order is broken (A not valid anymore) your TTO order (event B ), trigerred CONDITIONALLY on event A) is still valid and you have an accidental open position, unprotected, in the market.

    That is especially worrying since MB has server maintanence twice a day around 5pm and midnight EST and bandwidth is scarce at those times, prone to away market limit orders being actuated.

    I'm confident you know a customer has everything to lose trading limit orders on EFX together with the danger of something similar to what occurring hanging over his head.

    I expect to receive a refund of the little reduction incurred but I wonder if Justin can guarantee EFX clients that if a trade is broken, all subsequent trades triggered by the busted one will be considered invalid and the cash won/lost on them being returned (and explanations of the TTO being a legit commerce eventhough the original trade was busted could hold in court but should not satisfy any believing customer). I won't use limit orders on EFX till I get this kind of assurance.

    I'm wondering if the trade would have been busted if I (the little customer) was around the other side of the trade (might have occurred if I used a market order to buy in the exact same time- would have been filled in 152.19)?

    Did this kind of thing happen to anyone reading this? I'm interested in hearing your bad/great matches were treated...

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    I'm presuming that you mean you just had a Limit TTO in the machine, which is exactly what you meant by conditional?
    Exactly

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    Just
    Well, I assume you talked to EFX and not just MB about it, so you most likely already have your response. This has always been a potential problem, but as a person who has used the platform for 1 1/2 years and conducts a lot of trades a day, the majority of them prevent limit tto, I can inform you that the entire amount of times that my entrance was triggered by a false spike and then my TTO was executed is zero. I have always know that it's possible, though, and I am not sure what the response is. I understand the platform has some reduny checks that help confirm that the quote is accurate before it executes, so one bank placing in a bad quote would not activate your order when their prices are out of range of the rest of the market. However, in the instance of something more system wide with several banks, that could activate your order and they may undo that trade because it created executions that were obviously out of range. I've only had that happen twice in 1 1/2 years, didn't really bug me. But if that proceeds to get into your TTO, that is a very intriguing question. It isn't their fault that the first issue occurred, but of course, you feel like if they float one and the second was on the very first, why should not the second be broken. But the 2nd most likely accomplished from different banks, that do not want to bust the trade.

    I have thought of this often. Luckily, it never actually comes up. I am unsure what's fair there. As clients, we always want them to just credit us, but when they opened that door, the potential risk to the firm could be enormous, even though it probably never would be. Be interesting to find out what Justin says concerning it, even if he sees the article.

  4. #4
    Gidnoa ~

    Could you please email me with your entire name and account number so I can have a look at your logs?

    Also. . .could you say who you talked to at EFX Group or send me some correspondents involving our reps which you may have had.

    Thank you I shall wait for your email and we will find this solved.

  5. #5
    I'd under stand and be on your side if your order was sitting at 157.19 and you got filled even when the market was trading around 79 when this happened but the simple fact is your order was around 88.

    You took a chance and gambled. I'm sure if you phoned right when this happened they would have busted either side then.

    This would happen to me constantly on CNX but the diff was my order would be sitting at 157.19 and I'd get filled becasue some bozo newbie was trying to use a news auto click app and trying to grab the spike in thin/low liquidity.

    Some instances they would bust the 1st aspect of the transaction and occasionally they wouldn't, but has much as busting the 2nd side which wasn't likely to happen 1. Becasue it happened during mkt conditions and two. It was usually a bank holding that side.

    Much like my transactions if I did not call it in when I knew it happened I had been gambling. The bottom line is that you saw the secure open and thought that you could get away with it. We know if they did not bust the 1st transaction you would not have started a ribbon GREAT FILLS WITH EFX LIMIT ORDERS.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    I'd under stand and be on your side if your order was sitting 157.19 and you got stuffed even when the market was trading about 79 when this occurred but the fact is your order was approximately 88.

    You took a chance and gambled. I'm sure if you called right when this occurred they would have broken both sides right then.

    This would happen to me constantly on CNX but the diff was my order would be sitting at 157.19 and I'd get filled becasue some bozo newbie was trying to use a news auto click program and trying to grab the spike in thin/low liquidity.

    Some instances they would bust the 1st aspect of this trade and sometimes they wouldn't, but has far as busting the 2nd side that was not going to happen 1. Becasue it occurred during mkt conditions and 2. It was usually a bank holding the side.

    Just like my trades if I did not call it in when I knew it occurred I had been gambling. The bottom line is that you saw the safe open and thought that you could eliminate it. We know if they did not bust the 1st trade you would not have started a thread GREAT FILLS WITH EFX LIMIT ORDERS.
    Your conclusions imply I'm lying in my article, it is wise to read next time as I stated specifically I wasn't at home while this occurred, so no gamble on my side (unless you assume I whined, which I'm not but you can think what you want)

    The problem I'm addressing here's limit TTO orders being executed while one's away from his computer. If one's home all day in the screen you are correct, no problem with calling but most usage limit orders while at the screen as you might know....You can select if you think me not being in the screen but that doesn't have anything to do with the limit tto problem.

    All your post was offensive and unpleasnat, thank you.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    your conclusions imply I'm lying in my article, I suggest you read better next time as I stated specifically I wasn't at home while this happened, so no gamble in my side (if you don't assume I lied, which I'm not but you can believe what you need )

    The issue I'm addressing here is restrict TTO orders being implemented while one's away from his computer. If one's home all day in the screen you're right, no issue with phoning but most use limit orders while no in the screen as you might know....You can choose if you believe me not being in the screen but this has nothing to do with the limit tto issue.

    All in all your post was offensive and unpleasnat, thank you.
    I do apologize, I did over look in which you say you where away. I hope you do get the issue solved, sadly at ever broker we sign our lives away and all of them appear to have a clause that doesn't hold them acceptable for technical problems. Its to bad you couldn't have called them before they called you so you could have that in your pocket.

    Good luck getting this sorted out.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    PS to turbo: you forgot to say EFX includes a banner on your website....
    No sorry EFX has no paid banner on my website.

    If your referring to their logo under the broker review department you may want to point out that every brokers logo is also shown.

    Just the shear notion of how FA functions I don't think it will ever have a paid advertisement by a broker. .

  9. #9
    Gidnoa -

    Thank you for submitting this and let's understand what happened for you.

    I never knew about transactions being busted. I'm thinking now when the now-you-see-it-now-you-don't candlestick spike I posted about some time ago was really a busted trade that was eliminated from the information?

    I also use Limit TTO orders and leave them instantly. My timezone is this that I'm normally asleep through the U.S. sessions, so this could be worrisome should a trade be busted and my TTO abandoned hanging-in-the-wind during this session as the moves are quite large during these times

    Anyway, I'm sorry to hear what happened to you, but I love your article because it informed/edued me on what could occur to TTO orders I wasn't aware of.

    I won't be using TTO's during away times ahead, that's for sure. Regrettably, although Stop Market orders cover the stop loss side, sometimes you just wish to have a fixed pip profit and not depart the TP side open because you rather have an notion of where it's going to go up/down into , so TTO's were good because of that. Oh well.

    I expect you get resolved. Good luck!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    I really do apologize, I did over look in which you state you where away. Well I hope that you do get the problem solved, unfortunately at ever broker we sign away our lives and all of them appear to have a clause that does not hold them acceptable for technical issues. Its to bad you could not have called them until they called you so that you might have that in your back pocket.

    Good luck getting this sorted out.
    No problem, sorry for lashing out at you, I'm a bit tired of this issue and seeing an impliion of me lying here made me a bit too angry.

    I emailed Justin he asked for and I'm sure it will be solved.

    I only wanna repeat - this isn't about getting my money back today (because of its poker oriented- it's two large blinds of the constraints I used to play so I can take it), it is the idea of not being able to trust limitation tto orders with 100% assurance .
    I'm sure this does not happen frequently but after a year is greater than enough to take your account to zero or x2 in case you are not by your computer.

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